300 will not turn over by kicker, but will by starter. - Honda TRX Forum
 
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post #1 of 8 Old 04-30-2019, 02:12 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy 300 will not turn over by kicker, but will by starter.

Hey guys!

As the title states im having a starting issue with my 1988 300 fourtrax. I was having a harder and harder time starting it, and it slowly grew to run like crap. Decided that meant it was time for a rebuild. A new top end, and timing chain/sliders later I cant get the engine to turn over by the kicker. If I spin the flywheel bolt with a socket, or use the starter it will start, but the kicker only spins the clutches. Being told it was the one way bearing in the centrifugal clutch, I replaced it, but have found myself stuck with the same result/ If i flip the one way bearing over the kicker does not move at all. Any suggestions?


What im looking at:

1. One way bearing installed clutches spin freely, gear that makes contact with kicker gear spins clockwise, when not in contact with kicker ,and spinning engine over clockwise.

2. One way baring installed opposite of above, kick start does not move, the gear that makes contact with the kick-start gear spins down counterclockwise when not in contact with kicker, and engine spinning over clockwise.
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post #2 of 8 Old 05-02-2019, 07:21 PM
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I don't know if this will help, but here's how I do it;

Remove all the clutches - slip the centrifugal clutch hub on the crankshaft and install the one way clutch - with the spark plug out of the engine, the clutch hub should freewheel counter clockwise, but lock and turn the crank when turned clockwise - once that has been straightened out, remove the parts and lay them out exactly the way you are going to install them

Now install the manual clutch basket and clutch hub - tighten the clutch nut as much as possible with out special tools - slip the kick lever onto it's shaft and operate it by hand - the kick gears should move, engage and the inner clutch hub should spin counter clockwise - if that works, install the clutch plates and one spring - just snug the spring (don'y tighten completely) - again operate the kick lever - both the inner and outer clutch hubs should turn CCW

If all is working well up to this point - install the centrifugal clutch hub and one way clutch - now when you operate the kick lever, the clutch should try to turn the crankshaft, but with only one spring holding the pressure plate, the clutch might slip while turning the crankshaft. If all is well up to this point, install the centrifugal clutch and tighten it as much as possible with out special tools - again check operation by hand - if all is well, install the rest of the clutch springs and snug all of them -again check operation by hand - the crankshaft should turn CW with little resistance - if all is right, install the spark plug, remove the clutch springs and pressure plate, tighten the clutch shaft nut to specification - with the clutch nut tight and the plates installed, hold the clutch plates in place with one hand and operate the kick lever - the engine might turn some until it comes up on compression and stops turning, at this point, the inner clutch hub should spin and the driven plates should slip allowing the inner hub to turn while the basket remains stationary because compression is preventing the crank from turning

If all is well up to this point, install the pressure plate, springs and tighten the clutch spring bolts no tighter than 7 foot pounds - take the spark plug out and operate the kick lever by hand - the crankdhaft should turn clockwise when the kick lever is operated by hand. NOTE: never apply more than hand pressure to the kick lever with the RH engine cover removed - excessive force could damage the crankcase.

Finally, tighter the centrifugal clutch nut to spec and test operation once more - if all is right, install the clutch cover and operate the kick lever by hand one more time - install the spark plug, kick the engine over normally - if all works correctly, fill the engine with oil, install the spark plug cap and start the engine - the job is now done.

Let me know if this helps or at what point there is a problem.

General information - the electric starter turns the engine by the LH end of the crankshaft while the kick starter turns the crank from the RH end - just so you know they are totally separate starting systems.

Last edited by Here 2 help; 05-03-2019 at 01:48 PM. Reason: After thought
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post #3 of 8 Old 05-04-2019, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for your response. My issue lays in step number 2. With only the outer and inner manual clutch hubs on with no plates, the manual clutch spins clockwise when pushing down on the kicker, and only spins counterclockwise when the kicker is released (or when its recovering from the kick).
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post #4 of 8 Old 05-04-2019, 05:02 PM
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You sir have a most baffling problem

Was the transmission worked on prior to this?

This is something I would have to have hands on to diagnose - it's almost as though it is kicking in reverse, but it has a reverse and Honda in their wisdom designed the kick lever to utilize the reverse gear to facilitate the kick forward operation.

I cannot tell you what's happening unless the kick lever is being operated in the wrong direction.
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post #5 of 8 Old 05-05-2019, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
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Indeed I do lol. It has not had any tranny work done. The engine was original from 1988, and by the looks of the internals this is the first time its ever been repaired. The kicker has progressively gotten worse and worse before i decided to tear it down. Im wondering if I waited to long and messed up the internal timing somewhere if this engine uses it on the tranny gears.
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post #6 of 8 Old 05-05-2019, 03:13 AM
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There is no timing of transmission gears - there is timing marks on the kick ratchet, but it's only for the proper tension on the kick return spring.
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post #7 of 8 Old 05-23-2019, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
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Talk about discouraged! Bought a bottom end to put my brand new entire top end on and it does the same thing!!!!!!!! How!
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post #8 of 8 Old 05-23-2019, 01:25 PM
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Now I'm intrigued - this is very odd - If you would be willing to ship me your original lower end - I would be willing to inspect and repair it at no cost (except for parts if any) and if not repairable, tell you what the cause of the problem is. I would not need any electrics - only the crankcase with transmission, all the parts under the clutch cover and the clutch cover.

Maybe make me a video of the engine to exhibit the phenomenon that you are witnessing - I can't imagine what is occurring.

I'll PM you my email and maybe we can get this resolved.
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