engine oil - Honda TRX Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 09-14-2018, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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engine oil

cani run this oil in my2000 400ex?

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post #2 of 10 Old 09-14-2018, 06:30 PM
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You can, but you shouldn't - it's diesel grade CK-4 which is fine in a Harley or any engine that does not lubricate the transmission and clutch with the same oil.

Honda specifies JASO rated oil. JASO oil is approved for use in engines with wet clutches and transmissions that run in engine oil. I recommend using any brand of oil with an API rating of SH or lower (SG, SF, SE, SD etc) or JASO rating of MA or MA2 in your TRX400EX. Some API rated oil may be approved for use in both gas and diesel engines. An "S" rating is for gas engines and a "C" rating is for diesel engines. I noticed that a certain line of Mobil 1 oil was rated "S", "C" and "MA". It is the only oil I have seen rated for all three uses.
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post #3 of 10 Old 09-14-2018, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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ok thank u very much
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Originally Posted by Here 2 help View Post
You can, but you shouldn't - it's diesel grade CK-4 which is fine in a Harley or any engine that does not lubricate the transmission and clutch with the same oil.

Honda specifies JASO rated oil. JASO oil is approved for use in engines with wet clutches and transmissions that run in engine oil. I recommend using any brand of oil with an API rating of SH or lower (SG, SF, SE, SD etc) or JASO rating of MA or MA2 in your TRX400EX. Some API rated oil may be approved for use in both gas and diesel engines. An "S" rating is for gas engines and a "C" rating is for diesel engines. I noticed that a certain line of Mobil 1 oil was rated "S", "C" and "MA". It is the only oil I have seen rated for all three uses.
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post #4 of 10 Old 11-06-2018, 01:30 AM
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This oil is jaso approved. It would be very suitable for a 400ex or 450r oil. Shell rotella is very similar and has been in all of my honda 400 and 450s for 10 years and hundreds of hours.
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post #5 of 10 Old 11-06-2018, 03:34 AM
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This oil is jaso approved. It would be very suitable for a 400ex or 450r oil. Shell rotella is very similar and has been in all of my honda 400 and 450s for 10 years and hundreds of hours.
Where did you find the JASO rating on this oil? The only ratings I was able to verify was the API "C" (diesel rating) - go here to view the technical data sheet - no where on it is a JASO rating https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/299-700-td.pdf

Shell Rotella T4 is not JASO rated either - here's the tech data sheet for Rotella T4 https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod.../t4-10w-30.pdf

Like I said, you can use it if you want to, but it may not be the best oil for the application - just because you haven't had a problem does not mean the oil is performing satisfactorily. You use whatever oil you want to and I will use the recommended lubricants. You do it your way and I'll do it my way and we'll all be happy.

Note - the 450 uses separate oil in the engine and transmission - the 400 uses the same oil to lubricate the transmission and the engine.
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post #6 of 10 Old 11-06-2018, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Here 2 help View Post
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Originally Posted by ridingred View Post
This oil is jaso approved. It would be very suitable for a 400ex or 450r oil. Shell rotella is very similar and has been in all of my honda 400 and 450s for 10 years and hundreds of hours.
Where did you find the JASO rating on this oil? The only ratings I was able to verify was the API "C" (diesel rating) - go here to view the technical data sheet - no where on it is a JASO rating https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/299-700-td.pdf

Shell Rotella T4 is not JASO rated either - here's the tech data sheet for Rotella T4 https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod.../t4-10w-30.pdf

Like I said, you can use it if you want to, but it may not be the best oil for the application - just because you haven't had a problem does not mean the oil is performing satisfactorily. You use whatever oil you want to and I will use the recommended lubricants. You do it your way and I'll do it my way and we'll all be happy.

Note - the 450 uses separate oil in the engine and transmission - the 400 uses the same oil to lubricate the transmission and the engine.

Both Rotella T and the above listed oil meet or exceed Jaso ratings. The link you provided to the shell rotella tech sheet in fact says on the bottom left in bright yellow the ratings. Jaso is listed. I have been running shell rotella for a long time and have discussed it's properties with clutch manufacturers as well as engine builders.

Did you know that Rekluse clutch even recommends running this in the clutch side? here is a link to that
Rekluse Support FAQs

I am fully aware that the trx450r has separate oils, this allows the owner to be able to run their preferred oil on either side. The fact that I have pulled apart many engines after running rotella T and have seen very minimal wear will prove that it's more than satisfactory. I will also mention that there are an abundance of other riders/racers who run this oil. It is no secret.

I am going to provide a link to the Schaeffer oil website it is the same as yours. I am not sure if you are missing the specifications or intentionally ignoring them, however I do feel it is beneficial to make sure we are correct in what we say. The OP's listed oil does meet JASO standard and likely exceeds it. https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/299-700-td.pdf

SynShield™ Durability Advantage SAE 15W-40 meets and exceeds the following manufacturers’
specifications and requirements: API Service Classifications CK-4/CJ-4; Military Specification MIL-PRF2104K;
ACEA E7-12; ACEA E9-12; Global Specification DHD-1; Caterpillar ECF-3; Cummins CES 20081,
CES 20086; Detroit Diesel Power Guard Oil Specifications: DDC93K218 and DDC93K222; Deutz DQC
III-10 LA; Ford WSS-M2C171-E, WSS-M2C171-F1; JASO DH-2; Mack EO-O Premium Plus, Mack EOS4.5;
MAN 3275, MAN 3575; MB 228.31; MTU 2.1; Renault VI RLD-3, RLD-4; Volvo VDS 4, VDS 4.5;
Navistar; John Deere; CHN (Case-New Holland).
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post #7 of 10 Old 11-07-2018, 01:19 PM
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OK - I should have been more specific - Rotella T is JASO rated DH-2 ('D' for diesel)- for motorcycles and ATV's it should be rated MA or MA-2 ('M' for motorcycle)

I should quantify that I do not know all the API or JASO ratings, but I know with API 'S' is for gasoline engines and 'C' is for diesel engines - I now have learned; in 1998 the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (or JASO for short) developed a grading system for motorcycle oils. The grading system measured (amongst other things) an oils ability to resist clutch friction (or slippage), protection offered against engine wear and pitting in the gear box. JASO developed the Japanese standard for special oil which can be used in 4-stroke motorcycle engines with one oil system for engine, gearbox and wet clutch system. Fluid is non-friction modified. JASO MB. MB grade oils are classified as the lowest friction oils among motorcycle four-cycle oils.

Additionally I was informed that; "Modern motorcycles usually have the same oil lubricating the engine and the wet clutch. For this purpose most of the time the regular friction modified engine oils are not good enough. To make sure that the right oil is used motorcycle manufacturers usually require the oil to meet one of the JASO standards".

There is a good article on it here https://www.oilspecifications.org/ar...MA_JASO_MB.php

Therefore, I stand corrected that Rotella does have a JASO rating, but it is not the correct JASO rating for the application and can ultimately contribute to premature clutch or transmission failure.

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post #8 of 10 Old 11-07-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Here 2 help View Post
OK - I should have been more specific - Rotella T is JASO rated DH-2 ('D' for diesel)- for motorcycles and ATV's it should be rated MA or MA-2 ('M' for motorcycle)

I should quantify that I do not know all the API or JASO ratings, but I know with API 'S' is for gasoline engines and 'C' is for diesel engines - I now have learned; in 1998 the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (or JASO for short) developed a grading system for motorcycle oils. The grading system measured (amongst other things) an oils ability to resist clutch friction (or slippage), protection offered against engine wear and pitting in the gear box. JASO developed the Japanese standard for special oil which can be used in 4-stroke motorcycle engines with one oil system for engine, gearbox and wet clutch system. Fluid is non-friction modified. JASO MB. MB grade oils are classified as the lowest friction oils among motorcycle four-cycle oils.

Additionally I was informed that; "Modern motorcycles usually have the same oil lubricating the engine and the wet clutch. For this purpose most of the time the regular friction modified engine oils are not good enough. To make sure that the right oil is used motorcycle manufacturers usually require the oil to meet one of the JASO standards".

There is a good article on it here https://www.oilspecifications.org/ar...MA_JASO_MB.php

Therefore, I stand corrected that Rotella does have a JASO rating, but it is not the correct JASO rating for the application and can ultimately contribute to premature clutch or transmission failure.
Per shell's website which has been linked twice in this thread. The shell rotella t 15w40 Heavy Duty Motor oil (which i run religiously ) Is Jaso DH 2, MA, and MA 2. It also has no friction modifiers. For this reason it is perfectly suitable for our atv engines and not only that but extremely common. On both seperate oil motors and motors that share their engine oil with the transmission shell rotella T is a very good oil to run. I have read and researched the use of Rotella T in our small atv engines, especially on crf, trx, yfz, rancher, rincon and 400ex motors for about 10 years now. I have seen many many many of the results and even some of the oil studies that go along with it. It is more than proven and I've never seen any claim of it contributing to premature clutch or transmission failures. I am talking about bone stock 400ex's as well as 14:1 CR race built motors that run this oil for hours at a time.

Last edited by ridingred; 11-07-2018 at 02:54 PM.
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post #9 of 10 Old 11-07-2018, 03:07 PM
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Different products - I was citing T4 10Ww30 and you are using T4 15w40 - the 15w40 is rated as you say https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/prod.../t4-15w-40.pdf

You are correct on the Rotella oil, but wrong on the Shaffer's 700 Synshield which is not rated JASO MA or MA-2 - it is JASO DH-2 only - I stand by my conviction that it can be used, but is not the best choice - your are absolutely fine with your choice of Rotella T4 15w50 - I believe over time, using the Shaffer's 700 Synshield, the clutch will be damaged
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post #10 of 10 Old 11-07-2018, 03:11 PM
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the 10w30 must be new or something as I have never seen it on the shelves?

Last edited by ridingred; 11-07-2018 at 03:14 PM.
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