Honda TRX ATV Forum banner

81 - 100 of 101 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #81
Original, on left. Disassembled backward if you remember. On right, the third and newest acquisition, beginning to split cases. Oil strainer is literally packed with metal to the case floor.
GOPR0157_1616432168659.JPG
GOPR0157_1616432168659.JPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #83
Still gotta grind that welded sprocket off that output. I got lots of pics, but only I know which is what. Lol.
Air compressor is due to arrive today. Maybe I can start blasting some items today/tomorrow.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,117 Posts
Looks like you are using T-shirts for fender blankets - the third engine looks like it might be in the best condition as a foundation for the project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #86 (Edited)
Yep, old uniform shirts. Gotta keep appearance nice at work. Throw them away? I think not! Lol.
That third engine has a 12:1 piston in it.
One new gear inside also, small dabs of rtv, here and there.
I suspect it was refreshed already.
The micrometer will tell!

And, that cheapo air compressor showed up, whoo- hoo! At least I can wash with water and blow dry now! It IS an oil lube, at least.
20210322_171934.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #87
First coat of liquid stripper went over the frame and control arms. It was a very old chunky can. I would say it yielded 50% bare metal. I need to pick up a another can, a NEW can! I will post pics before I start priming.
At this point, I am jumping around on tasks, and not completing any of them, lol. I'm also distracted by my daily obligations. I'm the chef of our family, among everything else, I wash off engine oil, and apply vegetable oil.
I have spent a lot of time measuring and locating the 10 koyo roller bearings. I can say, I have the new bearing identity numbers for koyo now. Whoo-hoo!
I still need to hone and measure the cylinders to find my piston set. I also need to locate a local machine shop capable of 75mm boring.
This is not the best area for machinists.
Most claim tooling is unavailable, for everything! That and they hate it when you mic it before you pay, but I have caught them wrong in the past.
Hopefully, this is the slowest point in the project.
Technically, I am still gathering good parts and need machining. Quite the ordeal, as I didnt realize 250x stuff was so scarce in my area.
Just keep it moving.....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,117 Posts
If you don't find a machinist to bore the cyl - I run my own shop and bore cylinders from about 1.75 to 6 inches - ONLY if you can't find someone locally to do it, I will offer my services to you - $60 to bore and hone to final clearance with the piston of your choice. You can buy the piston and send it with the cyl, or you can tell me what piston you want and I can get one for you. Now, that's one dilemma solved and you can carry on with the rest of the project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #89
Awesome, thanks for the offer. One engine has a dome top in it. I'm going to hone that cylinder and see what it comes out to. May be in tolerance for something. There is one place about 45mins away that is more of an industrial shop. Large orders of thousands of items. I need to get down there and see if they will entertain a dude with a cylinder.
I assume wiseco is still a premium piston? Was back in the good OIL days...
I'm going to try to drum up a spec card for wiseco beforehand.
Are there interference issues with the 12:1 wiseco in the 250x, camshaft? I am not seeing head shims available. Or what is the remedy if issues occur?

Update: That industrial shop said a cylinder is automotive, they don't do automotive. No exceptions. So, I (in fact) am not special... mother lied...:p The previous arrangement fell through with the small chip in the case being welded up. Today, this place did accept the welding task.
They also gave me a name for possible cylinder boring locally. I will try to check tomorrow.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,117 Posts
I assume wiseco is still a premium piston? Was back in the good OIL days...

Are there interference issues with the 12:1 wiseco in the 250x, camshaft? I am not seeing head shims available. Or what is the remedy if issues occur?

They also gave me a name for possible cylinder boring locally. I will try to check tomorrow.
Wiseco is the only manufacturer that I found who still has pistons for the 87 TRX250X - piston # 4440M
Std size (74mm) is NLA - I could not find any in any distributor's warehouse
First oversize (74.5mm) - is NLA from Wiseco, but there is 6 in 3 different warehouses (PA, CA and IN)
Second oversize (75mm) is available - Wiseco has 6 in Ohio and there are 4 in PA and more than 10 in IN
Third oversize (75.5mm) is available - Wiseco has 1 in OH and there is 1 PA and 1 in ME
Fourth oversize (76mm) is available - Wiseco has 1 in OH

I didn't search Ebay, I'll leave that up to you. The Wiseco numbers are
W4440M7400 for std
W4440M7450 for 0.50 or .020" oversize - may also be listed as W4440P2
W4440M7500 for 1.00 or .040" oversize - may also be listed as W4440P4
W4440M7550 for 1.50 or .060" oversize - may also be listed as W4440P6
W4440M7600 for 2.00 or .080" oversize - may also be listed as W4440P8

I also found some Wiseco top end kits (piston gaskets and all)
Kit PK1021 is 74.50mm (4 in PA - 1 in IL)
Kit PK1023 is 75.50mm (1 in FL - 1 in IN - 1 in PA)
Kit PK1025 is 76.00mm ((1 in PA)

Cam is not a problem - if you find a high lift cam, it will work without need for shims. If you don't fins one and want one, your cam can be reground by Web Cam and turned into a high lift cam. NOTE, the cam will be hard faced and the rocker arms will need to be refaced also - contact Web Cam for details.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #91
Hey! Those wiseco part#'s will help greatly! Thanks!
I am most definitely tempted by the 12:1.

We have a race gas/oil store here in town. 110 octane, 5 gallon pills, all day long. Or pump...
For fun, I drop 5 gallons in my '70 elcamino, when I get bored. 255/60r15 and posi dont stand a chance.
That and I get headaches sniffing the tailpipe...

Still haven't honed and mic-ed the 2 cylinders I have. As soon as I know what I have, I will try that last machine shop, if need be.
Thanks for all the wiseco info, very helpful!
Back to stripping paint...lol...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #92
Here is the bearing list if someone else needs it.
#XX (placement in bike bandit breakdown) followed by honda P.N. - followed by short description - followed by koyo bearing number - followed by approximate size. The bottom is bearing count.
Note: bearing 63/22U I actually haven't found.
Anyway, here is some chicken scratches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #94
I CAREFULLY purchase from ebay. Pistons, cam chain & guides, bearings. Worth paying for the premium parts.

Tie rods, ball joints, brake pads, cables.... ebay all day!
Purchase price (÷) my possible labor on failure (+) the missed ride (=) premium parts, unless I can see/touch it to inspect it. That's my thought process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #96
I never cared before now, but, I have learned "rs" is basically rubber sealed. "ZZ" is the metal shielded. "Cs" seems to be the open bearings.
What is the "U"? 63/22U That's the one, I get no results.
I can work backward through my notes and find it in the case.... (I'm talking before I do the work, sound familiar?)
All the 9 or so premium bearing makers offer the shop by size tool. However, you do need the dimension to thousandths. Or know it. Offhand, I do not. Lol. Beware of counterfeit bearings, also!

If anybody is wondering kwik strip (like at walmart) does remove powder coating. The powder coat was easy, it was the primer base that was bad. Wound up with a wire toothbrush sized tool, scrubbed it down and built some character today. It is as bare, as I am going to make it. I just need to hit the rust spots with some paper and I am priming the thing.
Control arms, hubs, all that bubbled right off.
I feel compelled to have a frame before I complete the engine. Prevents someone from purchasing my engine before it is mounted. Bahahaha!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,117 Posts
NOTE: all bearings are metric unless they are special inch bearings - make all measurements in MM and any bearing can be special.

Example: the output shaft bearing of the XR400R and TRX400EX through 03 is part number 91003-KCY-671 - it is a special 6205 bearing - 6205 measures 25x52x15 while Honda's measures 25x52x13 - in 2004 Honda changed - that bearing to a non standard 25x55x13 - while the 91003-KCY-671 is marked 6205, it cannot be replaced with an OTC 6205.

You are right about the designations, but there are variations 1RS = sealed on one side, 2RS is sealed on both sides, 1MS or Z usually indicates metal shielded on one side while 2M, 2Z or ZZ indicates metal shielded on both sided - no suffix indicates an open bearing. I buy 2RS bearings almost exclusively and just remove one or both seals as dictated by the application (a manufacturer buying hundreds of thousands of bearings will buy only what the engineer dictates as it is more economical to have the specific bearing for the specific application.

One thing about seals vs shields - a sealed bearing technically cannot be re-greased where as a open or shielded bearing can be - the shields simply exclude large particles from getting into the bearing while allowing grease to enter or exit past the shield. Open bearings rely on external seals to prevent contaminants from entering the rolling elements.

Here's another example of a special bearing: my Triumph 650 Bonneville has a special bearing on the output gear of the transmission. The bearing is a std. British RLS-9-1 1/4 manufactured by SKEFKO - measurement is 2.5" x 1.125" x .625" - the bearing as sold by Triumph under part number D3556 was superseded to 60-3556 measures 2.5 x1.25 x .625 - the original 1 1/8 ID was increased to 1 1/4" to slip over a sleeve that the front drive sprocket mounts on. It was cheaper to bore the std bearing than it was to order a special bearing to be manufactured.

In 2004 Honda replaced that STD. 6205 with a special 13mm depth with a completely non-standard 25x53x13 bearing that can only be purchased through Honda.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #98
Lots of good general info on bearings there! I'm not sure anyone has put all that in one place. (Outside their head)
I agree with purchasing the double rubber seal bearings and modify for applications.
Worth mentioning here.. the grease needle is one of my favorite tools, when used creatively.
I am also a d-series fanatic... the grease needle will slip by seals and under ball joint/tierod boots on those "unservicable" items.

Got sent back out on the road for work, again. 3 weeks out. Unfortunately, not much can be done on this project till then. Other than ordering parts.
Pause for 3 weeks.:cry:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #99
I have been eyeballing those Cafe/Bobber styled build ups of the Goldwing. I like both.
I have been apprehensive because I know it would start another scavenger hunt. My dads a beer drinking, truck driving, Harley dude all the way. A bobber Honda would be the perfect way for me to visit home! Lol!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #100
Wonder what kind of weight savings would be yielded from losing all the reverse items, during this rebuild. Power/weight ratios add up quick. Or I could stop eating, that would be the easiest performance enhancement.

(Class) Anybody... have knowledge about what exhaust headers and slip ons work or almost work on this bike? Mine came with a cut off rusty header. (Insert: Put your hand down joke @ here2help's expense) Lol, its all good natured fun, I appreciate it.
 
81 - 100 of 101 Posts
Top